Curse

Arduin · Nov 25, 2010, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

Not to come off as an ass, but the idea of fracturing European districts to language-based ones was a fail since inception. I prefer a Babylon over Ghost Town, not sure about you.

This only became a problem when player base was dwindling as a whole. Read all the complains about foreign languages being talked in european english 1 on this thread, or the discussions that pops up when some Dutchy is talking Dutch in Kamadan ee1...

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

EU servers are completely dead, it makes no sense to play on them.

German and French are quite occupied really. Only English is empty, because every English speaker went to US districts, thus making the European English even more empty, so even more people went to the US districts etc.

Warvic · Nov 25, 2010, 09:56 PM // 21:56

I played in the EU district the first couple of years.

But now i'm in a american guild and i also find it extremely annoying to trade in european districts. now i can obv understand some basic german and french. But it's no where near enough, and there is a big chance they can't understand me. So i have to go to US districts for that.

It all happened when they added french, polish, german etc. districts. Before that we only had euro-english. That's why it was just as full as the US servers now are.

That's also the reason why i cba to to switch to EU alot when i play the game itself. It takes time! And US has much more people anyways. easyer to PUG etc.

my ping in EU is superb! (16-30). And in US arround 150 or so. But i rly don't care about that unless i'm playing pvp ofcourse

Lord Mip · Nov 25, 2010, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse

Players need a way of blocking or ignoring chat that's not in the appropriate language. Districts was a way of making that happen. I happen to like GW's way of doing things than most other games where the players are seperated out into different server worlds and there's no communication between them.

That being said I really do wish those people not using English in the Euro English districts, either use their home district, or the International district (which is WHY IT'S THERE).

The number of times I zone in and see complete walls of text (usually Dutch) that I can't read or understand simply beggers belief.

If only they'd make a Dutch district. It would definitely be more populated than the Polish one .. (Thought I'd probably still populate the American district). You can't blame Dutch people for speaking their language because there's no place for them to go. Most of them still speak English anyway, I don't see them often.

Warvic · Nov 25, 2010, 10:03 PM // 22:03

True. I see alot of dutchies in the EE district. Actually i see alot of dutchies in the entire game. I'm always wondering how much dutchies play this game compared to russians and poles.

June Bug · Nov 25, 2010, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Lol, I say that all the time in game, let the Dutch have a district. If there was ever a need for it, it's now.

As for me, I used to play in the EU english districts (I remember when Kamadan EE used to have 4+ districts on a normal day (outside festivals). Now everybody has moved to AE. So I did too.

bhavv · Nov 26, 2010, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

German and French are quite occupied really. Only English is empty, because every English speaker went to US districts, thus making the European English even more empty, so even more people went to the US districts etc.

Oh, I never go into any server that isnt English, I should have said EU English servers. Servers for languages other than English would be used by people who cant speak English anyway, so thats no surprise.

roysland · Nov 26, 2010, 09:24 AM // 09:24

I started playing on AM servers long before the European ones got deserted. First of all, they all spoke english, which in this day and age, should be the primary language for any game.

And then there was the fact that it was so much easier to get wins in RA and TA on american servers. It always seemed to me like euro and asian players were better than americans. :P Unfortunately, my ping on american servers are always orange, ranging from 300 - 600ms, making it impossible to play profession which requires some reaction.

Now, if all europeans started playing in Euro districts, I'd come back there. We could always petition to revert to the old favor system.

Milennin · Nov 26, 2010, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

What's up with the German districts anyway? It's getting tedious, because you'd expect a well-educated German to be genuine and speak in English seeing as players from all nationalities hang around in German districts thanks to their population, but what you usually get are insults, ignore button and more insults. Thanks for your generosity my German friends, I shall return the favour one day

Too bad AM servers are unbearable with the pings they offer. There were times when EU English district was a nice place to hang out and there was a good reason to avoid AM ones, but it seems that since the migration took place it's increasingly pointless to play at EU servers, unless you speak German.

Lol, I remember a few weeks ago when I was selling things in Kamadan - American districts, and I PM'd a dude I was selling the item he was looking for in Party Search, and he said he doesn't do trades with Americans and started to insult me for no reason (even though I'm not even American).XD What's up with those German people?

Morphy · Nov 26, 2010, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Because there are much players in the American districts and not much in the European districts.

Melkorium · Nov 26, 2010, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Why celebrate a treasonous englishman fighting for spain, trying to bring catholicism (the more evil of the two evils) to power over protestantism?

Because the fireworks are pretty.

Amy Awien · Nov 26, 2010, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

German and French are quite occupied really. Only English is empty, because every English speaker went to US districts, ...

Ah, so I should go to German to PuG and stick to English for quiet H&H

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

... What's up with those German people?

Same thing as what's up whith too many people these days, they generalize. Eat one rotten apple and they're all bad. Their loss really.

Melkorium · Nov 26, 2010, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Same thing as what's up whith too many people these days, they generalize. Eat one rotten apple and they're all bad. Their loss really.

It's almost like your generalising about German people

Anon-e-mouse · Nov 26, 2010, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mip

You can't blame Dutch people for speaking their language because there's no place for them to go.

Yes there is, it's called the International District. Going to an English district and then not using English is just plain rude.

Iuris · Nov 26, 2010, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Everyone has the right to speak whatever language they want. The penalty is only being understood by people who also speak that language.

I know it's annoying, but really - in a worldwide game, you'll have to get used to the idea that other people speak other languages.

AmbientMelody · Nov 26, 2010, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Same thing as what's up whith too many people these days, they generalize. Eat one rotten apple and they're all bad. Their loss really.

I'm afraid that this time around being ill-treated is the norm, whereas the 'golden apple' is an exception from the rule. Even when I spoke in communicative German I was quickly identified as 'foreigner' and treated differently than the rest, even if they could perfectly understand what I say and I was genuine enough to speak in their language. Most funny practise is when you admit to be Polish and get kicked shortly afterwards. I'm sorry but I don't buy your 'eat one rotten apple and they're all bad'. Treating foreigners bad is a norm, not an exception.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

This only became a problem when player base was dwindling as a whole. Read all the complains about foreign languages being talked in european english 1 on this thread, or the discussions that pops up when some Dutchy is talking Dutch in Kamadan ee1...

German and French are quite occupied really. Only English is empty, because every English speaker went to US districts, thus making the European English even more empty, so even more people went to the US districts etc.

This was a problem since beginning, the only difference is that at first there were much more EU players in total than AM ones so it wasn't that noticeable. I don't mind people talking their own languages on global/English channels, simply because English is a global language. You can't compare a Dutch on a global district talking his own babble to a Frenchman talking French on a Russian district, it's not the same.

Obviously, some people won't use English because they don't know it, or will stick only to guys of their own nationality for reason unknown, but if they want to actually do something on the global district, they have to use English. English is the standard. More: English should be a standard, because it's a most-spoken foreign language of the educated class, pretty much covering most of your GW players.

You'll never find as many people able to speak German, French or Spanish, as you'll find talking English, amongst all of your GW players. It is only common sense to standardise the language and set it as English, as well as soften up the rules of foreign languages speaking on the global districts. When you move everyone to English-dominant district, then you create a pressure to use this particular language. No other language save for English will work flawlessly in case of EU/AM players. It is pure pragmatism. Notice how many players live and work in America, yet they all speak English on AM districts no matter their nationality.

Assumption that educated European might not be taught English is a myth. He is taught English, it's just that ridiculous national pride won't allow some to speak anything but their own language even if they perfectly understand the opposite party talking English. It's a problem of mentality, not a problem of education. As far as I know MMO developers fight with wrong mentality of their players, instead of embracing it.

There is a reason no language-based worlds have been confirmed for GW2. There simply won't be any, because Anet isn't willing to repeat the same, terrible error of the past. World is nothing besides oversized, semi-persistent district of entire campaign, so it's not a big deal here.

Bellatrixa · Nov 26, 2010, 02:03 PM // 14:03

I hate to sound mean here but...

I play in the English districts because I speak English and want to be able to play with other people who speak my language. If I spoke French, I'd be in the French district speaking French. If I was German, I'd be in the German district speaking German. I disagree that things are too harsh in that respect. That is part of the reason why so many English speakers moved to ADs. Because they actually wanted to be able to understand what was going on.

I know from playing other MMOs with European servers exactly how literate most Europeans are. It's VERY rare to come across someone who doesn't understand you entirely. Yes, it IS somewhat pride for them to not speak English, but I also find it disrespectful. When I go to other countries, I make the effort to speak their language. I might fail and then ask if anyone speaks English, but I at least make an effort. I've played in other languages and spoken German/French and yes, there is somewhat of an attitude at times. Mostly I've found that they're accepting and appreciate the fact that you're making an effort. I don't see why it's a case of English people should put up with it in their districts.

Maybe I'll start a new trend of playing in the Polish (picked a country at random, no offence meant to anyone) districts and speaking entirely in English to see how many of them get annoyed. Probably few as they'll understand what I'm saying. Hmm, must get the thesaurus out...

Also, if you really feel the need to speak to someone in a language that's not the one in the top left corner, there's that whisper function. There's team chat. Guild chat. Alliance chat. If you're advertising a guild, it's enough to say which language you are, not write the whole guild message in your language whilst in the English district. Please and thankyou.

Also, part of me realises how silly it is to be debating this given the fact that the playerbase has shrunk so considerably.

Lord Mip · Nov 26, 2010, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Many European players do speak English. All Scandinavian, Dutch, Swiss, Austrian and Polish players I know speak English. National pride is mostly an issue for the French, Spanish and Italian players, and I don't have a clue why Germans are a problem because they stick to their own districts so they're not really a nuisance.

AmbientMelody · Nov 26, 2010, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mip

Many European players do speak English. All Scandinavian, Dutch, Swiss, Austrian and Polish players I know speak English. National pride is mostly an issue for the French, Spanish and Italian players, and I don't have a clue why Germans are a problem because they stick to their own districts so they're not really a nuisance.

It becomes a problem when you have 150-250 pings in EU PvE zone (moderately playable, PvP pings are somewhat better ... 75-150, usually) compared to 200-500 pings in AM PvE zone, not to mention sudden lag spikes. With concentration of players on German districts you're pretty much dependant on them, outside guild and friend list.

The only semi-working solution is looking for people on AM districts, asking who's from Europe and if the rest (non-EU) agrees to switch to EU district. It's more an issue of simple convenience for me, but for more laid-back players without a guild this becomes a nuisance.

Personally I haven't experienced as much nationality-based hostility in other MMOs which have standardised English channels, probably because everyone learned to just cope with each other. The privilege of this is that nobody spams the trade channel with offers in foreign language, because he wants to damn make sure he is understood. Conversely, when I see trade offers in GW written in German/French/Spanish/whatever I want to hurt somebody. How could a trader be so much of an ignorant and ass by making his offer understandable only to few? He wants to annoy the hell out of me or sell/buy an item!? Like I said, it's a problem of mentality. Language-based districts only fuel this sad mentality, which should have no entry in any MMO game.

Amy Awien · Nov 26, 2010, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Why is this debate returning?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

Assumption that educated European might not be taught English is a myth.

They'll still communicate better and more natural in their own language then through the English they get thaught at school. It's only natural that a group of people doing something together would use the language that helpes them communicate best. Their pride is not the issue, you simply have no right to interfere with a group of people talking with each other, or demand they use your language for your convenience.

Where you see their pride, they see your arrogance.

Quote:

There is a reason no language-based worlds have been confirmed for GW2. There simply won't be any, because Anet isn't willing to repeat the same, terrible error of the past.

Then you best get used to seeing non-english in chat. English is not a requirement for GW-1 and it's not likely to be one for GW-2.

Or maybe they'll just implement a system for language differentiation the same way they did for trade. That way everyone would still be in same town for grouping and trading, without americans becoming so annoyed with non-english chat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

Conversely, when I see trade offers in GW written in German/French/Spanish/whatever I want to hurt somebody.

Then next time consider that their game probably shows them localized names for the stuff they want to sell and they likely have no idea what it might be named in english, so they couldn't advertise in english even if they wanted to.

Gli · Nov 26, 2010, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse

Yes there is, it's called the International District. Going to an English district and then not using English is just plain rude.

European players from territories without their own language district don't "go to an English district." ANet puts them there by default. They stay there because the only district that would make sense for them to go (international) has always been a ghost town.

Dumping everyone who doesn't speak one of the supported languages into a single district can't work anyway. Since the majority of them understand English, but very few (if any) of the languages other than their own that they'd encounter in the 'every other language' district, nobody would want to be there. Why would someone go to a district where they'd only understand 1% of the conversation (their own language) if they could go to a district where they'd understand most of the conversation (their own language + english)?

That's the charm of the English language districts: if some people are speaking your own language there, great! If not, well, there's still English.